Neutral Ground

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Neutral Ground

Post by Katrina Delain on Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:09 am

So, it occurs to me that we don't have much in the way of neutral ground (except, y'know, space, but that technically isn't any sort of ground). The question is, do we need some to facilitate easier interaction? And if so, what?

My intial thought is that it would be helpful, and we could look at perhaps some sort of ramshackle station that's been cobbled together from the wreckage of the big fleet battle by scavengers and various other ne'er-do-wells. The fact that it's made from the wreckage of a lot of big ships would mean that it does, in theory, have enough firepower to hold off an attempt at a hostile takeover from any one group.

Opinions?

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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Valerius on Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:11 am

The biggest question would be "Where would it be in the System? Between Earth and Mars?
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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Nik Rillians on Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:14 am

It makes sense to have it there, there would be so much debris flying around it would be such a hassle to navigate with a fleet. So yeah, works for me bosslady.
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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Katrina Delain on Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:22 am

If I recall my plotting correctly, the battle would have been closer to Mars than Earth, but as the route taken by the fleet wasn't a direct line from Earth to Mars it's still a good distance away from the planet.

Sort of like:

Mars.......
...........Battlefield
.............
........Earth

If that makes sense?

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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Valerius on Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:58 am

Confirmed.
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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Daniel Graham on Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:28 pm

In orbit around Luna could make sense. They themselves don't have a large fleet, but the threat of advanced tech would be sufficient for the station to not attempt any sort of takeover or annexation.
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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Katrina Delain on Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:54 pm

Too close to earth for my liking. They do have a large fleet, which contains battleships.

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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Regan Black on Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:44 pm

I don't mind where it is, so long as it's neutral and accessible for everyone!
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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Valerius on Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:15 pm

Luna orbit? Too close to me. Period.

I am sure everyone will know for who I speak for.
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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Daniel Graham on Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:51 pm

Well a station that doesn't have a gravitational anchor isn't really a good idea. Stations very rarely have proper propulsion systems, so it would get dragged around the system at the whims of every other celestial body due to their gravitational fields. Otherwise it would constantly be expending power and fuel to maintain position.

So it really should be in orbit around a planet to cut back on fuel requirements as well as power requirements. Well Mercury is too close to the Sun, and every other planet inside the asteroid belt has a faction on it, so something would need to give.

Feasibly the station could have been made Post-Collapse, as I imagine every faction could recognize the need for neutral grounds if for no other reason than to facilitate critical trade deals. If that's the case, then the station could be in orbit around a planet/moon without a problem.

Wherever it's located, a matter of equal security presence is simply a matter of agreeable force. Earth might have a Heavy Cruiser in orbit with the station while Luna might send three Destroyers. As well, if each faction signs a non-aggression treaty for interactions on the station and within a certain area around the station, then no faction would violate that treaty without giving every other faction license to open fire. A sort of Mexican Standoff, if you will.

Ultimately, I don't care exactly which planet it's in orbit of. But I do think it makes the most sense to be in orbit around a planet. Without knowing exactly what each planet has to offer, I couldn't make a detailed argument for which planet, but yeah. My thoughts on the matter.

If the station is the amalgamation of dozens of other ships, it's not unreasonable to assume that it might have a battleship or two.
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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Stealthfox on Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:37 pm

So basically we need a DMZ neutral territory, and breaking that is paramount to setting off a WMD? Hmm, sounds risky, I like it Very Happy
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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Katrina Delain on Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:38 pm

I can understand what you're saying, Daniel, and it's certainly food for thought.

In terms of fuel/propoulsion, I'm thinking that they station would have at least partial access to the engines of the ships its made from, which run off the same fusion reactors the station would be using for all of their power anyway. Given the unwieldiness, they wouldn't be much use for anything more than basic maneuvering, but they'd do for keeping it at the debris field.

Regarding the idea that it might have battleships integrated into it, again I fully agree this would be likely. However, my concern would be more that Earth - or even Luna once we get some loony Lunarians - might interfere with people going to the Station.

As far as the factions signing a non aggression pact in relation to the station, we'd be relying on everyone agreeing then, and I'm not 100% sure I'd want to stake it on that. Call me paranoid, but I've had far too many FLs suddenly abandon a treaty that had become inconvenient.

Bonus Points:

The idea of Valerius having access to the ability to colony drop someone is giving me horrible, horrible flashbacks. I will be sending you my therapist's bill.

The idea of a floating space station floating in a debris field is sooooooooo cinematic :p

Also, slightly more seriously, I'm going to draw up a locations guide from the databanks as soon as I get the chance as you're quite right that there isn't enough information available on the planets.

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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Stealthfox on Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:47 pm

What this station in question needs is something that makes it invaluable. SOmething that all factions want and need, but don't want to annihilate each other and the object in question at the same time by accident.

Example: Battletech: Commstar regulates all calls in the galaxy. If you piss off commstar, you get no coms to anyone, and no one remembers how to make that tech (Except clans) Because of an ancient contract.
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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Valerius on Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:10 pm

OOC wise, very fine points. Problem.

I play loony characters. I am no alone on that department.
I play megalomaniacal characters. I am not alone on that department.
I play pricks. I am not alone on that department.

All you need is to give us lot a strategic/tactical advantage in utilising (aka abusing) a premade concept and you have yourself a Board-wide campaign level of crisis.
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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Katrina Delain on Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:42 pm

It's true, he's done it before. Actually, so have I.

Besides, there's nothing in our canon that this station would have a monopoly on.

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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Valerius on Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:08 pm

Benefits of being closer to Mars than the Moon:

Closer to Titan Expedition (great counter against people like me)
Midway between Venus and Axis...I mean Ceres (Gives Titan players a chance to justify interacting despite being in an isolationist faction)
Midway between resource rich Asteroids (presumably) and Venus (gives Sol-Tec players a reason to use station as the end-of-the-line to their supply routes before hitting Mars)
Far enough away from me and my intended base, on the Dark Side of the Moon (Cause Space Nazis...I mean...uhh...yeah...)

If astronomical physics is giving you headaches...plonk it on one of the Moons of Mars...Phobos or Deimos...or use them as bases to which to defend it out of.

Finally, no reason to make a NAP between the factions that so far has shown ZERO interest in speaking to each other...in fact, is there a means of communications now that the most likely candidate of a comm hub is some radioactive crater? Shouldn't we be back to sending out pigeons to each other? In fact, how do we all know we still exist? We did just nuke each other to the void and back again...
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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Katrina Delain on Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:34 am

Good points. I've certainly been working under the idea that most factions have only the very vaguest ideas whether the others are still around or not - hence Katrina being sent on an intel gathering op in her thread with Drake (to which I'll reply tonight, sorry!).

This also reminds me that I need to add a section on communications to the databanks.

~adds to her 'to do' list~

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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Regan Black on Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:29 pm

What about one of the other objects in the asteroid belt - there are two other protoplanets, Pallas and Vesta, that could be considered - they are admittedly closer to one faction than another (Mars or Earth Remnants) but they might solve some of the problems e.g. orbit, gravitational pull - worth considering?
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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Daniel Graham on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:56 pm

If Earth has even half-operational shipyards, it doesn't at all seem unlikely to have communication capacity. As well, even every other faction should have those basic capabilities. I mean, right now we can easily communicate with Mars, with real world tech. I don't see any evidence or reason why that's no longer the case.

And unless Venus, the Moon, and Mars have been sufficiently terraformed, they'd need to be able to communicate their needs out to other planets.

As well, if we're concerned about unstable fanatics, I don't see how the Titan Expedition is any more of a threat than any other faction, specifically in the case of guarding a station.

And for the question of how we know other factions still exist (barring the Titan Expedition); telescopes are still a thing.
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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Valerius on Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:00 am

Do we even know if humanity operated orbital shipyards? If they were on the ground, they would have been one of the first to be hit by MAD.

We know the Fleets basically recreated the civil war on Earth in Space. Communications would have been the first to be hit via jamming or the old fashioned way of sticking a torpedo (or radioactive meteor) into the antennae. Repair facilities would be limited to the mobile repair platforms and they require raw materials.

If the shipyards were in orbit, I would guess many of them would have been targets to bombardment from surrounding fleets. Efforts to deny the enemy an advantage in numbers and bases would have made any orbital facility a prime battleground for all the factions to fight over in the Civil War. I would not even be surprised if most of them were forced out of orbit to recreate Operation British, Gundam Style.

On another note of communications blackout, this one is intentional. We just came out of a civil war that destroyed the majority of humanity. It came about from various ideals and resentments, not all of which is mutually beneficial to the others. Religious fanatics can cross swords with freedom fighters and democracy movements can go head to head with vested business interest. All of them could have actually risen up against the UEG rule. Mars, Luna Dome, Sol-Tec all refused to answer the call for aid from the central government. The fleet suddenly started shooting each other willy nilly, some on purpose, others by accident (e.g. thought they were under attack, shot first to be safe, turned out two friendlies went up in a ball of friendly fire). Who in their right mind would look at the quiet that came after all the bombs were shot out to ask if anyone else was alive out there? Its like painting yourself with a huge arse bulls eye icon saying "HIT MEH!"

On your second point: Hydroponic farming, MRP technology, inherent resources from Mars and the Moon. Sol-Tec, they be not on the planet, but instead in orbit around the planet with huge solar panel arrays soaking up the Solar radiation and heat and light to produce power. On top of that, they are resource rich before the war so I am guessing they have huge storerooms on that station. Add in waste purification facilities and you are set to go near indefinitely without fear of energy, food, water nor oxygen. Its only Earth that's screwed and they have their own world to rediscover Fallout Style...

Titan Expedition has at least one Admin and one Former Admin from another board on it. You can be assured that they can keep their own members in line and keep those who they cannot around long enough to cause as little damage as possible. (All OOC means I be talking about here). They are people who I know to have good integrity and have the best interest of telling a good story at the core of their being.

I cannot say a single thing on the same grounds about myself. I am proud to say I relish at the thought of being driven by what I deem to be logic of my characters. If I make a character with an inkling of ambition and I am suddenly given a neighbour that is basically neutral ground inside a massive hulk of metal that can be propelled through space, the first thing I would do would be to distract the rest of the board long enough to RP planting some propulsion systems onto the hulk and then send it crashing towards the nearest "foe" HQ. Done it before, am quite confident I can do it again given enough time. That's what keeps Kal up at night. That's what kept Sal paranoid about all my posts and when he has the time to, rereads them mostly to make sure I am not foreshadowing anything. End result, do not give me toys.

You mean the one in my Grandpa's attic? Or the telescopes on the volcanoes of Hawaii that can take excellent shots of colourful messes? Cause the former can barely see craters on the Light Side of the Moon while the latter are likely to have been taken out with the rest of Humanity...You will have to ask the staff what they think of military grade telescopes on Sol-Tec, the Moon, Mars and amongst the Titans...

Regardless, If you wish to put it on a Lunar orbit, or on a Terran Orbit, by all means, please. I will enjoy having an extra goal. Can you imagine the havoc such a station's crash will cause? Hehehe.
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Re: Neutral Ground

Post by Katrina Delain on Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:34 am

Sorry for the delay, everyone. I've been feeling quite unwell, but I'm back (albeit slightly zombielike).

Anyway, before any arguments spring up, I think I'm going to close this off. Thank you all for the input. I think I'm going to hold to my original idea - mainly because of its central location and how much Valerius is starting to scare me.

I am, however, going to hold onto the idea of Luna establishing an orbital facility as something to discuss with Luna's FL when they have one.

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